BLOODLETTING - "Robbery and Assault"
ORIGINAL POSTED AT:
http://www.comicsbulletin.com/main/sites/default/files/rage/107144769323789.htm
Oh, I’m sorry, did you think I was done with Rob Liefeld?
Guess again.
In the very same Millarworld thread I mentioned above, Rob got into a heated historical battle with creator Rick Veitch (Aquaman) who illustrated Supreme stories back in the day. It began when posters asked why the latest issue of Wizard magazine didn’t mention Supreme in its Alan Moore career tribute. A few people brought up the fact that Moore naysayed Rob’s work on the story, Judgment Day and attacked Rob for supposedly ignoring his scripts and instead drawing what he wanted. How much you wanna bet Moore asked Rob to draw feet?
Posters also brought up the fact that Rick Veitch has expressed disappointment in Rob for allegedly losing all the film and original digital files to his Supreme work and failing to pay promised royalties to creators for licensing their creations. In addition, Veitch is upset about the new Supreme collections published by Checker, which glorify Rob’s contribution to the stories on the back cover.
On his website, Rick writes:
For reasons that are unfathomable to me, again CHECKER has chosen to give a back cover blurb to Rob Liefeld as if he actually had much of anything to do with the work inside the book. Rob's contribution was as publisher (one who was often late with payments) cover artist and inker of about three pages worth of figures in the New Jack City story. In perpetuating the illusion that ROB was creatively involved in Supreme to any great degree, Checker slights the efforts of Gil Kane, Jim Starlin, Ian Churchill and myself who actually drew full stories for the book.
Of course the book's biggest failing is that the final issue of the story was never produced. This volume takes care of that little problem by ignoring it completely and just tacking "The End" on the last story.
My other beef is personal. There are no royalties being paid to the creators for either of the Supreme reprint volumes.
At this point Rob made his first of many, really fucking long counter-attacks. Initially the former Image bad boy talked about how brilliant Moore’s work on Supreme was and how much he regrets the financial collapse of his former company Extreme/Awesome. He talked about the need to move on.
Then he wrote:
Regardless of that unfortunate run of events, no one single person benefited from Awesome as much as Alan Moore did. Supreme single handedly revived commercial and critical interest in his career that had hit a snag with his Image work, including but not limited to Wildcats, Spawn, Violator and Violator vs. Badrock.
Supreme got people talking and pros and fans buzzing. It literally set the stage for his ABC line, in fact much of the ABC line is made up of poorly masked Awesome characters and story outlines he prepared for us. If I was as sue-happy and litigation driven as some suggest I be, I believe I could draw direct connections to many of the ABC characters and their origins coming from pages of Awesome work we commissioned from him. In short order, Tom Strong is Supreme mixed with his Prophet proposal. Promethea is Glory and the rest I honestly don't pay much attention to. Don't have the time or interest. Simply put, there is no ABC without Supreme and the Awesome re-launch.
As to his derisive comments about my Judgment Day work, all I can offer is that I followed the script implicitly and there was never an incident where his script had to be re-arranged to accommodate artwork that veered away from his script. He wrote full script and every page was followed to the letter.
Rob went on to address Rick Veitch's statements on royalties. He said it’s well known that royalties are paid after production costs have been covered. He acknowledged that larger companies are able to project sales and cut checks upfront, but said this wasn’t possible for Arcade. “I'm not a big conglomerate and look forward to achieving personal profitability on the Checker books that will enable me to cut everyone involved royalty checks,” Liefeld wrote. “That will happen as soon as the production costs have been covered.”
When tackling the issue of creator credits on the Checker trades, Liefeld likened himself to a movie producer who accepts an Oscar for film he worked on. “Similarly, I would think that when compiling credit list for the Supreme books, the producer, in this case, myself would be credited. I assembled creative teams, staffs and financed Supreme in case Mr. Vietch has a short term memory. That said, I have no agreement with Checker to acknowledge me in any way shape or form on the trade dress. I might guess that the fact that I have a fan base of my own and some small success in the comics business (100 million comics worldwide and counting) may have played a small part in prompting my involvement big or small as it may be.”
After this statement, Rob said he’d be addressing Alan Moore’s comments about him in greater detail “in the very near future”, but that the forum on Millarworld was not the time or the place.
Not sure what that meant, but apparently it was the time and place for Rob to shift gears and talk about his issues with Wizard magazine. Something about threatening publisher Gareb Shamus with bodily harm and how he crossed the line and learned a valuable lesson. Then he said, “If I ever share the details of the story it will both shock and entertain you in probably the same way it affected the staffers that witnessed it. You're sure to laugh even though it wasn't terribly funny at the time.”
Well shit.. I’m laughing now, Rob.
While Rob remembered the old days, Veitch crafted his first response for the boards. Like the posts that followed, it dripped with sarcasm.
I'm so happy you are stating here that the creators involved in Supreme will receive royalties on the collections of their work. Any confusion on our part could have been avoided if you, or someone on your staff, had gotten in touch with those of us who worked on the series and let us know what the plan was. Now that both books have been published to such great success, perhaps you could give us some idea of the percentages, or even the reprint rate, that we are set to receive?
Similarly, the return of the original art for New Jack City, which I've been asking you about since 1999, would be much appreciated.
As to your film awards metaphor for the strange credits on the Supreme collections, you no doubt are aware that the Guild strictly regulates who gets credit for what in any film production. Harvey Weinstein might get to collect the Oscar, but he isn't credited with the script unless he actually wrote it. If all collections of comics were credited as both Supreme books were, then Paul Levitz would be listed on the back cover of Watchmen right after Alan Moore.
Hoping to hear from you soon about the royalty deal and original art.
This set off a volley of posts by Veitch and Liefeld. Here are the highlights:
Rob: “I'm off to find artwork in question and we'll get to those royalties as soon as the books reach profitability.”
Rick: As to the promised royalties; couldn't you be a little more concrete about "profitability"? You have to admit what you're saying sounds so vague its easy for anyone to assume the creators will never see a dime on these books.
Rick: As to the credits; my beef was with the Checker tpb's, which listed Alan Moore and Rob Liefeld equally prominent on the back cover. To the uninformed observer it would appear the book is a collaboration between yourself and Alan, which it most definitely is not by any stretch of the imagination.
Rob: “Listening to your beef with the trades your gripes are clearly of a personal nature and are with Checker and totally out of my hands.
Rob: And for the record, none of the previous Awesome agreements involved royalties. I informed the Supreme parties 3 years ago that they would eventually receive royalties at the point of profitability. This is in no way shape or form new news to the Veitch or Moore. The up front page rates were above the industry average to off set the waiver on royalties.
Some feel entitled to participate in arrangements that were not part of the original agreements.
Rick: I'm not bitter about SUPREME. Actually, after a twenty-five year career spent observing and interacting with some of the grandstanders, greedheads and socio-paths working in comics, I find the situation more than a little amusing.
As to your statement that "I informed the Supreme parties 3 years ago that they would eventually receive royalties at the point of profitability.", I received no such communication from you or anyone acting on your behalf. My sole communications with you have been e-mails of the "Can you return my original art, please?" variety and your promises that it was going out immediately. (Any luck finding it by the way? I would really appreciate getting it back and will happily pay the shipping if it will facilitate its return).
Rick: I'd be happy to discuss either option with you concerning my extensive work on SUPREME. Sorry, but vague statements about 'profitability' are a red flag to any creator who expects to be treated fairly and professionally.
Rob: As stated by Mr. Veitch, he is a grown man, a veteran of the business who's been around the block and seen lots of shady characters. He signed a grown up document, actually several of them, stating there are no royalties for the work.
I have stated to him that I would like to pay a royalty if profitability permits. It's simple math, when the production costs are covered royalties could become available. We're not even close to this point yet and again, the grown up big boy documents signed by Mr. Veitch in 1996-98 make it crystal clear that there are no royalties owed to him or any participating party.
This is really old news, dating back nearly 7 years covering business that was conducted by grown men who were happy to sign voucher after voucher.
I'm certain that as time passes, others at Disgruntled R' Us will emerge and we'll keep going around this endless merry go round.
Rick: You're 100% right that we knew what we were signing (and who we were working for). And I realistically don't expect to get anything from you on SUPREME ever.
Any luck with the original art yet?
Rob was then asked why his relationships with his peers (Moore, Larsen, Veitch, McFarlane, Silvestri) always go sour.
Rob: Let's see, pretty much everyone with the exception of Silvestri who I was never friends with at any time, merely a partner in a comic business, each of the gentlemen you've mentioned are notoriously at odds with far more folks than me.
Moore at one time raged against the entire DC machine until he decided it was in his best interest to look the other way while they funded his ABC endeavor. Gimme a break.
Now it's just down to me and Marvel comics. Oh and he has a beef with Toddy Mac.
Todd and I are friendly, the past is in the past. We butted heads once and moved on.
Larsen. C'mon he's a classic player-hater. After Byrne maybe the biggest one on record. We're all just moving targets in his Uni.
Veitch, card carrying member of the vast Bitter Old Comic Guy club. Nuff said.
Or maybe I'm just a big ole prick.
Yeah, upon closer inspection, it's just me.
Rob: Allow me to issue a retraction.
I was too hard on Veitch, I'll downgrade him to cranky.
Rick: Rob
PS: Any luck finding my artwork?
And so it goes, friends. As entertaining as that was, I’m fucking drained after sorting through the thread. Let me just leave you with a conversation I had about this whole affair. I think it probably sums up everything even better than what’s above.
Markisan: I love how Veitch keeps asking Rob if he's found the pages? LOL
Friend: Right, right, even though he knows he'll never see them again.
Markisan: Yeah, you know he doesn't think Rob will ever locate that shit. It's really funny. And meanwhile Rob is like.. “I'll go back into the Supreme archives and see what I can find.”
Friend: Yeah, but he really goes and takes a shit and comes back, "No, I don't see 'em.”
Markisan: You know full well the Liefeld archives probably consist of a shoe box with 20 prizm cover copies of Youngblood #1 and a fucking Badrock button that lights up.
Friend: LOL
This Has A “Liefeld Lost & Found” Factor of Ten Out of Ten